Web guru Tim Bray takes Google Android job

Tuesday, March 16th, 2010 | Uncategorized

The co-inventor of XML likes Google’s philosophy overall, and especially how it applies to competing against the ‘Disney-fied walled garden’ of Apple’s iPhone.

Originally posted at Deep Tech

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Home News Deep Tech Deep Tech March 15 2010 2:43 AM PDT Web guru Tim Bray takes
Google Android job by Stephen Shankland Font size Print E-mail Share Share Tim
Bray Credit Alex Waterhouse-Hayward Tim Bray–co-inventor of XML notable tech
blogger and until recently a Sun Microsystems employee–has joined Google’s
Android team in part to show the world what he thinks is wrong with Apple’s
iPhone The move puts a personal face on the cultural technical and business
issues central to Silicon Valley companies In a blog post titled Now A No-Evil
Zone Bray said Monday he’s in philosophical alignment with Google in general and
in opposition to Apple’s iPhone specifically The reason I’m here is mostly
Android Which seems to me about as unambiguously a good thing as the tangled
wrinkly human texture of the Net can sustain just now Bray said Specifically he
likes Android’s developer-friendliness its full suite of interfaces its
open-source nature its strong Google backing its open market–and its
competition to the iPhone Bray offers the following tirade against Apple’s ways
The iPhone vision of the mobile Internet’s future omits controversy sex and
freedom but includes strict limits on who can know what and who can say what
It’s a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers The
people who create the apps serve at the landlord’s pleasure and fear his anger I
hate it I hate it even though the iPhone hardware and software are great because
freedom’s not just another word for anything nor is it an optional ingredient
The big thing about the Web isn’t the technology it’s that it’s the first-ever
platform without a vendor credit for first pointing this out goes to Dave Winer
From that follows almost everything that matters and it matters a lot now to a
huge number of people It’s the only kind of platform I want to help build Apple
apparently thinks you can have the benefits of the Internet while at the same
time controlling what programs can be run and what parts of the stack can be
accessed and what developers can say to each other I think they’re wrong and see
this job as a chance to help prove it Google in some areas is allied with Apple
but with Android increasingly is in competition Google Chief Executive Eric
Schmidt resigned from Apple’s board in 2009 And in March Apple sued handset
maker HTC for patent infringement a move that has repercussions for Google since
HTC builds its Nexus One and other Android phones Early on Google famously
adopted a don’t be evil motto attempting to build into its corporate culture a
motivation besides merely maximizing shareholder value Although this appeals to
Bray he said he recognized the time for absolutes is over for Google It’s now
too big to be purely good or in fact purely anything I’m sure that tendrils of
stupidity and evil are even now finding interstitial breeding grounds whence
they will emerge to cause grief And there are some Google initiatives that I
feel no urge to go near But there are those Ten Things and you know I’m down
with em Unreservedly Bray had been at Sun Microsystems since 2004 Sun had a
strong corporate culture endorsing open interfaces and eventually open-source
software as well But Sun of course didn’t remain independent Bray decided
against staying with the company as it becomes part of Oracle I’d had an offer
to stay with Oracle which I decided to decline Bray said I’ll maybe tell the
story when I can think about it without getting that weird
spiking-blood-pressure sensation in my eyeballs Stephen Shankland writes about a
wide range of technology and products but has a particular focus on browsers and
digital photography He joined CNET News in 1998 and since then also has covered
Google Yahoo servers supercomputing Linux and open-source software and science
E-mail Stephen follow him on Twitter at http://www_twitter_com/stshank or
contact him through Google Buzz Topics Web 2_0 Software Computer tech Tags
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a Comment Log in or register 43 Comments prev next by incessant March 15 2010
3:20 AM PDT Looking forward to Tim’s contributions to Android I’ve been an avid
reader of his blog and I’m very happy for him Like this Reply to this comment 2
people like this comment by dascha1 March 15 2010 3:42 AM PDT No it’s another
problem if not on his CV that he has good knowledge and years if not decades of
audio experience He should be able to say the word Q in a meeting without
getting a lot of disambiguous looks from developers to know exactly what he
means This has been what has walled minds from breakthroughs in the past Like
this Reply to this comment by kool_skatkat March 15 2010 3:51 AM PDT Well when
the world is mixed where there’s adults and children Most parent would not mind
a world of the mobile Internet’s future omits controversy sex and freedom Which
school will allow controversy sex and freedom to it’s fullest expression?Should
parent avoid Android because it provides controversy sex and freedom to their
kids Like this Reply to this comment by rj7855 March 15 2010 4:22 AM PDT a This
should be for the parents to decide not for a company Apple b Controversy and
sex should not hidden in order to protect I school should teach children how
handle these subjects c Freedom is one of the highest goods Apple has no rights
to decide what?s good or bad their policy as as bad the censoring of China or
Dictator states d Apple’s policy on apps does not archive nothing as long there
is a web browser that allows to search find and display all of those things
anyway Like this 7 people like this comment by gerrrg March 15 2010 6:58 AM PDT
Apple has become the ironic icon of its 1984 adverts purporting to set you free
You belong to the regime that dictates what you can and can’t do Like this 2
people like this comment by chrispix99 March 15 2010 9:57 AM PDT Oh and I
suppose children and adults should not be able to use an iPhone to scan for wifi
access points They pulled those apps As an IT admin responsible for setting up
and configuring in part wifi access points I am glad I don’t have an iPhone
because that feature of being able to determine what channels are heavily
congested vs open can’t be done on an iPhone now that they pulled all the apps
Like this by renGek March 15 2010 11:01 AM PDT The purpose to education is so
that you can decide for youself what is right and wrong As an educated parent
you then should be able to teach that to your kids and know what to/not to
isolate from your kids_Everybody gets offended by something and everyone is not
offended by something that offends you No one person or entity has the ability
to be totally neutral to everyone and therefore cannot dictate what is right or
wrong for you Like this 1 person likes this comment by kool_skatkat March 15
2010 3:52 AM PDT Well when the world is mixed where there’s adults and children
Most parent would not mind a world of the mobile Internet’s future omits
controversy sex and freedom Which school will allow controversy sex and freedom
to it’s fullest expression?Should parent avoid Android because it provides
controversy sex and freedom to their kids Like this Reply to this comment by
samiup March 15 2010 4:55 AM PDT is that what you understood from the article?in
that case i believe you would make a fine Apple customer Apple wants customers
who cant even understand a plain English text if its longer than 3 lines but yet
argue about technology___if you want a censored internet you can always leave to
China or Iran those are pretty much the only countries i know who dictate to
their population what is brows-able and what is not_as long as you are in the
united state or any part of the free world then i suggest you stop being lazy
and start doing your homework there are many non privacy invasive ways to
prevent children from accessing unwanted content having the state or the federal
government or a lucrative corporate like Apple control what people should access
and what they shouldn’t is not one of those solutions Like this by Sleep Dawg
March 15 2010 6:16 AM PDT samiup wow that was a load of snark Someone expresses
reasonable concern about Android’s open unedited path to adult content in apps
and you lecture them about parenting and the free world You should do some
homework yourself about court decisions in the US that have taken content
offline before you start pointing THAT finger at others_If Bray wants to get up
on his soap box and bloviate great whatever That’s what blogs are for End of day
MOST people don’t really care what kinds of decisions are made that narrow their
choice otherwise they would be growing their own vegetables and making their own
clothes And running Ubuntu But that hasn’t happened has it No because most
people don’t value spending their time on this computer-as-religion crap they’d
rather be out with their friends shopping or at a BBQ or watching a baseball
game Apple gives them a superior computing experience without the waste of time
stuff that gets in the way of that like tracking down drivers or swapping out
onscreen keyboards for ones that work like the i Phone or having to figure out
how to turn off that useless Buzz that the company which does no evil turned on
for you without asking Like this 3 people like this comment by e1000sn March 15
2010 8:17 AM PDT Sleep DawgHow many kids do you know with smartphones Not many
of course I can’t use that as a copout I’m sure there are some kids with
smartphones and that number will increase as smartphones become less expensive
so this isn’t a total nonissue Where to begin____First flash aside kids have
access to the same internet on the iphone as on the android this issue here is
developer freedom and community platform control Bray’s rant is about that NOT
the internet as a whole it is about developers ability to deliver software to
the platform It is about the censorship Apple displays when squelching
objectionable apps google voice anybody?)_Second since Android is an open system
it is far more likely that meaningful parental control software could be
developed for it iPhone on the other hand does not give developers the ability
to access or change the bundled software While there are currently no parental
control apps for Android I am sure that would change if there were a demand for
such apps FYI the only parental control app I could find for my iPod touch was
an alternate browser but I don’t see what is to prevent a child from just using
safari to circumvent the app)_@SamiupWould you let Apple censor your content if
there weren’t lucrative That’s what the end of your post implies Like this 1
person likes this comment by exactlyy March 15 2010 4:25 AM PDT Nexus One is a
great phone am glad more people would stop spending more money on a company that
its ultimate goal is to change the way we use the internet,and to make us follow
and obay whatever Job$ want so glad i havnt soent a dollar on such a retard
company and would never do hopefully more people w’ll start doing the
same__BOYCOTT the Demon::BOYCOTT Steve Job$$$$ Like this Reply to this comment 3
people like this comment by myoula March 15 2010 8:10 AM PDT on a company that
its ultimate goal is to change the way we use the internet”and not to make money
which world are you living Sir Like this 1 person likes this comment by Mr Dee
March 15 2010 4:25 AM PDT I hope Apples crushes Google like a bug Tim Bray you
may have invented important things but don’t let it get to your head now The
fact that your open ideas from SUN end up getting consolidated into Oracle shows
that Open Source will really never sell SUN never made dime off the technology
it created and look where it got him Working at Google Is he going to apply the
same philosophy there Well in Internet time Google will end up another division
of Oracle Google is good for one thing the one trick pony which is
search/advertising Like this Reply to this comment by celticbrewer March 15 2010
5:05 AM PDT youtube Android gmail docs patents books chrome maps/earth picasa
gears lattitude voice blogger open social dns you’re right Google is a one trick
pony ___jackarse Apple is the one who will be crushed very soon They’ve put
pretty much all their eggs into a portable consumer device basket and the
competition is starting to blow them away Like this 8 people like this comment
by drksilenc March 15 2010 5:39 AM PDT lol mr dee what grass are you smoking as
celticbrewer staited there alot more than a one trick pony and guess what apple
is the same way locked software out of date hardware and if they dont have
something groundbreaking with the next iphone a dying line of locked phones that
only do what they want Like this 3 people like this comment by brian_lee March
15 2010 6:37 AM PDT celticbrewer youtube Android gmail docs patents books chrome
maps/earth picasa gears lattitude voice blogger open social dns?”Before you give
google ALL the credit please remember most of those things particularly the
popular ones weren’t developed by Google but instead ACQUIRED by them ESPECIALLY
ANDROID___http://www_businessweek_com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024_htm
Like this 1 person likes this comment by yeshuawatso March 15 2010 9:52 AM PDT
Mr Dee you obviously don’t get open source to say it’ll never sell You don’t
sell open source in the first place you utilize it it’s more of a philosophy
Google knows this Sun knew this Oracle knows this IBM knows this Microsoft is
now starting to come around and even your beloved Apple knows this Apple’s
entire line of products with the exception of old style iPods wouldn’t exist if
not for Open Source Check out www_apple_com/opensource and see for yourself how
Apple needs open source to survive_What would the iPhone and OS X be like if not
for open source A lot like OS 9 Solid system but ugly and difficult to multitask
OS X Aqua and CoCoa API are Apple’s own creations but the base system is based
off of BSD and FreeBSD components_)Before you run at the mouth about open source
software and the general idea take a moment to look into the philosophy and how
you’re surrounded by it Like this by obscureflame7 March 15 2010 9:58 AM PDT
brian_leepls tell me thats not an argument but just an insightful comment bc if
it is an argument it’s a pretty useless one Yes this services weren’t developed
by google but so what Following the logic of the argument Apple doesn’t deserve
full credit for the Iphone either since the touch feature were acquired and not
developed by Apple In the end though the companies that did develop this
services were bought by google(credit to google for knowing wt to buy and
therefore are own by Google’s bag of tricks No Google is not good only for one
thing if so what happened to the developers of the companies bought by Google
did they magically disappear Like this by Sourdust March 15 2010 10:54 AM PDT
obscureflame7You’re argument isn’t very good Apple took existing technologies
and created a new device one that ha changed the market Brian_lee is referring
to the fact that Google didn’t create all of the products mentioned They
acquired companies with established products and markets When people mention
that Google is a one trick pony they are referring to the fact that the vast
majority of Google’s revenue is from search/ads and that all the products they
create exist to serve search/ads And while we can credit Google with some well
known purchases they also have many that you haven’t heard
of:http://en_wikipedia_org/wiki/List_of_Google_acquisitions Like this by renGek
March 15 2010 11:05 AM PDT really How about java and all the companies that uses
java How about all the software that is sold built on java How about all the
people who have had good paying jobs over the last decade because of java Like
this by afsina March 15 2010 4:29 AM PDT I think hiring Tim Bray is a mistake He
did nothing but harm Sun now it is time for Google Like this Reply to this
comment by gerrrg March 15 2010 7:01 AM PDT Lay out your proof or go home Like
this 2 people like this comment by revdrcr March 15 2010 4:48 AM PDT I speak as
one who went from iPhone to Droid/Android and back to iPhone there is simply no
comparison and all the Tim Bray’s in the universe won’t change reality iPhone
and Apple the best and they are the BEST because they have superior ability and
superior attitude Like this Reply to this comment by celticbrewer March 15 2010
5:12 AM PDT Sorry care to mention anything in detail How is the iPhone superior
to the Droid Give technical specifics not immeasurable opinionated things like
attitude Like this 4 people like this comment by drksilenc March 15 2010 5:40 AM
PDT nothing to see here just another apple fanboi Like this 4 people like this
comment by spitbucket March 15 2010 9:41 AM PDT Apple fanboy check Like this 1
person likes this comment by Sourdust March 15 2010 11:00 AM PDT If technical
specifics were all that lead to success the Wii and the iPhone would have
flopped Immeasurable opinionated things do matter That’s why people loved
Google’s do no evil tag line something that is relative for public company that
has to make money for it’s shareholders Like this 1 person likes this comment by
exactlyy March 15 2010 7:15 AM PDT did you know that you can watch flash videos
on your android phone i know that you got an iPhone but sorry dude that was a
mistake i’d shoot myself in the head if i was too dumb to get anything that is
apple i’d not help steve jop$ make more money by selling me a locked device
either it is iPhone or iPad the future is for open source a locked device is
somthing from past Like this Reply to this comment by wombatmobile March 15 2010
7:20 AM PDT I like iPhone because it ships webkit with SVG Android omits SVG but
it ships Flash Is that the way you like it Mr Bray Like this Reply to this
comment by ctekjeff March 15 2010 7:46 AM PDT Sun is dead My company is moving
fast to get off their platform as fast as it can now that Oracle has it in their
grasp Oracle Apple Google it’s all goes back to $$$ As a platform Apple’s iPhone
is friendlier to the user The Droid is so heavy that it can double as a deadly
weapon I have not picked up a Nexus One yet but HTC looks like they are going to
get sued into the ground because Google and HTC don’t respect other company’s IP
Google wants to rule the internet and that is truly evil They should have stuck
to search Best of luck to Tim maybe he can do good things for Google and make it
a better company Like this Reply to this comment 1 person likes this comment by
renGek March 15 2010 11:12 AM PDT And if you want to speak of lawsuits think
about how many patents Oracle now owns from acquiring Sun I’m sure there are
several lawsuits that oracle is waiting to slap on apple if they wanted to
Lawsuits of this kind is usually reserve for loser troll patents If thats the
direction apple wants to go to___then that makes them very patetic in my eyes
Its like running home to cry to your mother instead of standing up for yourself
Like this by Len Bullard March 15 2010 7:56 AM PDT Google eh That’s a pretty
good place to be Companies are like beer right ingredients in the right amount
at the right time at the right temperature make for a fantastic experience Get
them a little wrong and not so fantastic It isn’t 1993 and we’ve mostly put away
our shades Like this Reply to this comment by shycelticwitch March 15 2010 8:18
AM PDT Seriously are we supposed to be impressed It speaks volumes about the
success of Apple when every company in the same business wants to kill them and
crush them I went to look at an Android and nixed it immediately when it felt
like a brick in my hand Not to mention the fact that I can’t surf and talk at
the same time on Verizon network I spent 2 hours in their store and found
nothing there in the way of information service products or pricing that beats
what I have at AT&T Bray is a good name for this guy that’s what jack*sses do
and this guy just put himself in the crosshairs for a good bashing when his
strategy fails Like this Reply to this comment by yeshuawatso March 15 2010
10:05 AM PDT If you took time out of your life to check out Android then there
is something a want or need that Apple wasn’t giving you Your time is worth
something economically speaking and you must have noticed a perceived value in
Android to waste money on reviewing it and another provider You’ve also vested
time into making post about how you can’t find what you’re looking for with
Android_Also if you’re so satisfied with AT&T and want to talk and text at the
same time then why not just look in your own backyard AT&T is now starting to
offer Android phones There we just solved that talk and surf thing pricing
service and information all at once Now lets see how you’ll respond to Android
when it’s on the front page of your own network’s website I wonder what happen
to the iPhone being on the front page Like this by renGek March 15 2010 11:15 AM
PDT Not to mention the fact that I can’t surf and talk at the same time on
Verizon network_Thats a nice ad-lib from at&t commercials Except this is totally
pointless if you are constantly being disconnected My friends with iphones___can
never talk to them for more than 15 minutes without 1-2 drop calls No such
issues with any of my other non iphone friends or even at&t friends without
iphones because they’re on edge I guess Like this by Eideard March 15 2010 9:45
AM PDT I love watching engineers make of themselves declaiming to marketing
types how to sell something_I’ve worked in both worlds and almost always found
the marketing types with a better understanding of the reality of product design
from inception to sales traffic management_Should be fun to watch Maybe he’ll
get Google to turn Android into Windows Mobile 1_0 Like this Reply to this
comment by renGek March 15 2010 11:20 AM PDT are you kidding me Marketers are
either clueless because of their lack of technical knowledge or they don’t care
because they want to market the hell out of a product regardless if its good or
not When you devote your time to marketing instead of innovating you end up with
companies like present day yahoo Thats why music artists now has to be
attractive and whether or not they can sing is irrelevant Its all
marketing_Thats why microsoft failed with vista because they listen to marketing
instead of engineering Thats why you have windows 7 because they decided to go
with technical instead of marketing Like this by SavedByTechnology March 15 2010
10:26 AM PDT I own and love my iPhone 3G I recently had the opportunity to play
around with a Nexus at a wedding and what I’ve found is that there is some good
and bad in both phones I think the Nexus runs circles around the iPhone in terms
of performance And the Nexus is easier to navigate around But the iPhone just
runs smoother and the hardware has a better feel to it_Now the iPhone’s main
drawback as everyone in the world has mentioned is the fact that it is a closed
OS I want to be able to categorize all the apps rather than swipe through 6
screens to find the app I’m looking for I want to be able to adjust the screen
brightness without having to close an app I would like to see a battery
percentage at the top 3GS has it but not the 3G rather than a green bar All
these things can be done by jail breaking which I’m proud to have done but it
voids the warranty And THAT is where Apple has made the mistake customizing the
device you OWN should not void a warranty It’s not like adding a Chevy engine to
a Ford car Flash is the biggest argument Apple reportedly says it’s a battery
hog Ok then build a toggle to allow users to turn flash on/off 3G is a battery
hog yet you gave that a toggle_Please Steve look at the ad you put out in 1984
and tell me this is not how you envisioned Apple would turn out You’re making
great products but let the customers have some freedom to use the products as
they see fit Like this Reply to this comment 1 person likes this comment by
telco5 March 15 2010 10:26 AM PDT Ah yes arrogant people I find most people like
this are not worth the salary I can replace him with a room full of INDIAans and
not have to put up with it Like this Reply to this comment by H00L1GAN March 15
2010 11:00 AM PDT Does that mean Stevie J can be replaced by a handful of
carnival barkers Like this by JoeF2 March 15 2010 11:02 AM PDT Ah yes___An
arrogant PHB___I find most people like you are not worth the salary People like
you have no clues how to innovate Does your room full of people come up with XML
and the like Like this by gerrrg March 15 2010 11:28 AM PDT ECHO is the ADHD of
the wired world A hundred voices more or less saying the same thing in 90
characters or less I wonder what would happen if we replaced TV news with just
live ECHO feeds Entire news in 5 minutes or less Like this Reply to this comment
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